CCF + the Social Change Ecosystem with Deepa Iyer

Transcript

00:00:12

[Rachel]: Hello, everyone.

My name is Rachel D’Souza. I am so excited to be joining you today, both as a member of the Global Council for the Community-Centric Fundraising movement and as the founder and principal of Gladiator Consulting.

And today, I am feeling a bit of joy in the midst of all the chaos, in the world, because I get to talk with the very brilliant Deepa Iyer. Deepa, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome. How are you today?

[Deepa]: Thanks so much for having me, Rachel. Looking forward to our conversation.

[Rachel]: Awesome, wonderful.

So, for the Community-Centric Fundraising folks, they know that over the last couple months, I have shared with them, a couple different essays on the  Community-Centric Fundraising Hub about how to potentially integrate your work in the Social Change Ecosystem into the Community-Centric Fundraising movement. So that is where I would love to spend most of our time chatting today. But first, would love for our audience to learn a little bit more about you. So if you could just talk a little bit about who you are, what your story is, and why you do the work you do. That would be great.

[Deepa]: Yeah, sure.

So I have been working in nonprofit and social movements for about 25 years now, and have played a number of different, different roles. Frontline responder role, related to a lot of the work that I did after the 9/11 attacks and the backlash that followed. Also played the role of a builder to develop and create programs, like the one that I work on now at Building Movement Project called Solidarity Is.

And as a storyteller, to document and write about community histories and tools for social change practices, which I’ve done with the books I’ve written. So those are some of my kind of, entry points and places where I feel comfortable in the roles that I play to support social movements and leaders.

00:02:24

[Rachel]: Awesome.

And I love that you frame who you are using the roles.

So why don’t we start there? Why don’t you tell the folks that are joining us a little bit about how the social change ecosystem came to be?

[Deepa]: Sure.

So, you know, I think for generations, for decades, people and institutions have been showing up in different roles in order to press for the change that they want to see in the country and in the world. And this particular framework really draws on the work that so many of us and others that came before us, have done. It’s basically a tool that can be used by individuals, organizations or networks, and collectives to anchor our core values, to figure out the roles that are in right relationship to those values and the context that we’re in. And, will enable us to work together as part of an ecosystem instead of in silos and in isolation from one another. And so the framework is a multidimensional framework used by lots of different individuals and in different sectors. And, while a lot of times people are introduced to it during movement moments or crises that are happening in our communities, I think it can actually be valuable as a lifelong tool as well.

00:03:54

[Rachel]: Yeah.

I mean, I’ll say I discovered [Rachel does air quotes as she says this] — I discovered it, probably in 2021, which was a little bit after the Community-Centric Fundraising movement started.

And for me at that time with my team, I had started my consulting business back in 2015, and sort of knew from the beginning that I wanted to be rooted sort of in the values of social justice, equity, and liberation. And sometimes as an entrepreneur, you’re like, “yes, I know what these values are, but I don’t know how they’re going to show up as behaviors or how they’re going to inform my work.” And so I think for me, in the space of working with nonprofit organizations in fundraising and in strategy and also just trying to figure out, what am I good at? What role could I play? And then what roles should I play? Being able to sort of answer some of the early questions that were posed, with the Social Change Ecosystem tool sort of helped me figure out like, “oh, now is the time for you to be a disruptor. Like this is — there are places that that’s needed.” There have been other times where I have had to be a guide, right, for the folks that were in relationship with. And there are other times where telling the story has been the most valuable thing that I can offer. And sometimes it’s also really hard to, I think, step back from some of those other places. But I’ve learned in sort of my own practice of these roles and bringing it to life, that when you are in an ecosystem and you take a step back, there are so many other people that will take a step forward. That feels really, really powerful.

[Deepa]: Yeah.

I think you’ve kind of really articulated some of the ways in which the framework can be used, because as you mentioned, often, you know, we assume that we know what we mean when we use certain words like “solidarity” or “justice.” And one of the reasons that the ecosystem framework begins with values is because, it can be an opportunity for us to actually ask, “what does it actually mean when the value of justice is embodied in a particular context? Like, what does it mean in terms of the lived conditions for people or in the ways that nonprofits relate to each other?” Right. So it allows us to go a little bit deeper than just thinking about our website values.

[Rachel]: Right.

[Deepa]: And then with the roles, as you said, there are ten roles that we’re invited to think about playing in the framework. And, the questions that I encourage people to think about are first, what roles are you drawn to? What are people calling on you to play?

And then second, what roles are necessaryin this particular context and in the ecosystem you’re part of? So that we’re not ever separated from the community, the organization, the neighborhood, the school. And so, we want to make sure that we’re playing roles that are in relationship to what the needs are, especially of those that are most directly affected.

And then third, you know, what happens if we —

[At this point, we lost video for a little bit, unfortunately.]

00:07:12

[Rachel]: — is, have played in a lot of different ways across the nonprofit sector in the US? I feel like generally in my, you know, few decades in the sector, have seen low trust between nonprofit Organizations. Have seen low trust between nonprofits and their funders, and in many cases, actually see a lot of distrust and mistrust between the community that funders and nonprofits believe that they’re serving. And in reality, as you sort of said there, there’s many roles that will take all of us to realize the change that we want to see. Beyond sort of individuals engaging with the framework, how have you seen nonprofits or collaboratives or even community groups using this framework to meet the massive challenges that that our sector is currently facing now?

[Deepa]: Yeah, that’s a great question. I’d say there are a couple of different ways that I’ve seen nonprofits use this. So one, probably the most simple one is actually to use it to map our staff who work at our organization and to understand the roles that they play. And what does this give us, right? If — when we do a mapping like that, it allows individuals to think about their own roles, how they’re playing them, if they’re aspiring to new ones, if they want professional development to move into a different role and build their skills. It also tells us what roles are being replicated. It tells us the gendered way in which certain roles are being played. Right? So it can reveal some information, some patterns that can then lead us to make any changes or adjustments.

A second way that nonprofits use this is to figure out their own roles as an organization. And what I mean by that is the question of: Does a role that we play align with the role that the community that we’re doing this work for wants us to play? Going back to your point about trust, right. Or what is our role in the broader ecosystem? So if we’re a gender based organization that works on gender justice, what’s our role in the larger ecosystem of gender-based, gender justice groups or racial justice groups? Right. What’s our — does our role shift, as an organization, depending on the political landscape and context? Right. So these are all ways in which nonprofits have used and continue to use the framework to help them get a little bit more clearer, to take some risks and do some experiments.

[Rachel]: Yeah.

[Deepa]: And to, you know, kind of look in the mirror as well.

00:10:01

[Rachel]: Yeah.

Have you seen organizations sort of use this tool? One of the big things that’s been coming up for me for a while now, but especially this year, is this idea of right sizing. You see organizations that are pretty siloed from each other. They may be in community, where sort of efforts are duplicated or they feel like resources are scarce, maybe because of the competition or the overlap. Have you seen folks sort of be able to say, “actually, we’ve gone through the practice of using this, and maybe our work looks a lot different from the way that it has, or maybe the the amount of space we take up —”

[Deepa]: Right.

[Rachel]: “— looks different.” Have you seen it used that way?

[Deepa]: Yeah, absolutely.

I think that when nonprofits look at their ecosystem as a whole and they’re not just looking at their roles, but the roles of other nonprofits, like I recently, you know, did a workshop in Washington state and there were a lot of different organizations from different parts of the area there. And when we mapped out the roles of different nonprofits in that geographic space, you know, folks were able to find certain insights like, “oh, it looks like we have replication or over showing up over and over again in one particular role. What would it mean if we actually, you know, pivoted?” Right.

How could we actually diversify the ecosystem was another question because some roles were not being filled at all. Often the roles of like, experimenter and healer don’t get identified in the nonprofit ecosystems. And so it can allow nonprofits in a geographic area or in a particular issue area to identify gaps, duplication, and needs to skill up, in different ways. So that’s a great way of using this.

Philanthropy can do the same in terms of their grantees and sort of saying, “if we have a particular portfolio and we’re funding this, you know, segment of groups and they’re mapped into these roles, where again are we seeing a real gap? Who — who else do we need to fund? Or do we need to fund certain groups for a longer period of time or invest in them even more deeply so that they can actually lean into their role at a higher level?” So those are all questions and insights that can come up depending on how you’re using and, and what your prompts are. Yeah.

00:12:42

[Rachel]: Yeah.

No, I mean, I just, I love the nonlinear-ness of it. I love the dynamic experience of it. When I started fundraising longer, long ago, a lot, a lot longer than I, than I realized sometimes, I think I was brought into a more traditional space of fundraising that, you know, felt pretty transactional.

And I couldn’t really see or understand my impact, beyond making sure an organization was in the black at the end of the year, making sure that we had like a successful event or a successful appeal. And while that was wonderful, like while you want those things, there was something for me that felt disconnected from the work that felt inauthentic.

And I think as I have sort of grown both as a nonprofit professional, as a business owner and just sort of in my values and figuring out how they show up as behaviors. I think this tool has alsobeen useful for me in — what’s the right way to say this? Both like being able to assess the situation that’s in front of me and being able to advise folks about what could be, which I think comes into play sometimes, not just with the funders and the staff, but also with board members. 

A few years ago, I don’t know if you read that purpose driven board leadership article. It came out via BoardSource. It was published on the Stanford Social Innovation Review. And for a while people were like, wait, we’re supposed to do more than these sort of governance values or these fiduciary values? But I’ve also found that this has been a really great tool to be able to use with organizations who do want their board to be engaged in leadership and the direction of the organization. But also want them to be thinking like, what does the bigger picture look like? Have you had success using it with board members?

[Deepa]: Yeah, I think that — I think that it’s important for board members to go through this process because it reveals a lot. You know, when, when board members often take this particular tool and apply it to themselves, you know, there might be this case where they think of themselves as, like the visionaries. And I often like caution board members from thinking in that way because the visionary should actually be like the communities that we’re supporting, or the staff. Right. And, I think that what I always kind of advise board members to think about is to be the role of, to play the role of a weaver, which is the way that they can bring resources into the organization. Right. And make connections with different sectors and different folks. Or the role of a storyteller where they’re out there championing the organization, publicly, talking it up. You know, and then finally, of course, the role of the builder, which is so necessary in terms of providing sort of backend infrastructure support or accounting, or governance. You know, those kinds of pieces. So I think that it’s important — you asked this a bit earlier and I [indecipherable] to pull it out. But it was such an important question. You said, what if like some organizations or folks are taking up space? 

And I think that this tool can help us recognize, are we kind of over exerting our privilege, or our positionality? Right. Or kind of falling into these tropes of what we’re — what, you know, folks think we should do? If we have certain titles? This is not a title driven tool. It’s really about skills and assets and recognizes that everyone has a valuable role to play. Even when there are decision makers, right, who eventually make decisions. So I think it’s a way to also ask those questions of privilege and positionality, space, and maybe making some alignment as needed. Part of this framework, you know, is really there’s a piece on self-awareness.

[Rachel]: Yeah.

[Deepa]: And like looking at the interiority of our ownership and how we show up, which I think is really important. But it’s not that alone. It’s that self-awareness combined with: what is needed right now? In this context, from this community that I care about in this landscape? Right. And then kind of finding the alignment between my self-awareness that tells me these things about privilege, positionality, skill sets I have and my drive and vision and care. And what is needed in the ecosystem that I want to support. So that — it has to be — there has to be a through line that connects those [indecipherable].

00:17:54

[Rachel]: And that makes me feel like you need to have some sort of learning or unlearning about power and privilege and positionality to be able to use this most effectively.

Because, I mean, I think oftentimes when you’re a nonprofit professional, you’re a fundraiser and you’re in it, you are moving very linearly towards a particular goal or exceeding at a particular task. And we don’t, I think, in the sector always give ourselves the time to dream or to be curious or to try things. Right. Because if we try and we fail and then we lose our funding, the house of cards falls down. Right? So we we aren’t as curious right as we could be. And so we kind of get boxed in. And I think that being able to use this, I mean, really in any part of the — of an organization or or cause’s work, forces you to sort of get out of your own head. Get out of the mission that’s put on paper or whatever you have documented, and be able to think about the very real, like you said, needs of this moment, which feel like they keep changing. Every time I, you know, open a social media app or turn on the TV, I’m like, “oh, cool. Another, you know, executive order, another like, you know, wild announcement has been made.”

How do you think individuals within nonprofits can use this to sort of stay nimble or stay responsive without burning themselves out?

[Deepa]: Yeah, I think it’s you know, I think that sometimes in nonprofits we tend to either veer towards like ossification, where it’s like, “oh, we’ve always done this this way” and we keep doing it this way, or the funder expects us to do it this way. Right. Or we’re kind of, really searching to figure out how can we shift and experiment and change because we’re being adaptive to different contexts. I think that nonprofits are always like, kind of in between those two realms. And I think that for the most part, for the nonprofit sector, adaptiveness, adaptability, being nimble is just a prerequisite, right, to working in a nonprofit or to supporting a nonprofit.

You know, we saw this with the pandemic in terms of nonprofits having to shift their programs and their strategies in order to deal with, you know, being online more, not being able to do like in-person organizing or whatever the case. In this current political landscape that we’re in right now, where there are, as you mentioned, just this barrage of policy changes from hour to hour, from, you know, the fear that so many community members are facing in the wake of mass deportations.

[Rachel]: Yeah.

[Deepa]: You know, with the situation where the right to dissent, the right to critique is under attack. I mean, there’s so many, you know, I could go on and on and on, right, to kind of, articulate like what’s happening right now.

This tool might be helpful among so many others that are out there to support nonprofits that feel like they are playing a game of whac-a-mole. You know, or kind of on the seesaw, back and forth, bouncing back and forth to really ask, “Okay, what have we done well, over the years? Right. How have we shown up for our communities? What are our current — what are the current needs of our communities? And what roles can we play that would serve those communities? Do we need to shift from the roles we’ve traditionally and historically played? If so, how do we skill up? How do we partner up? How do we hire people that we need to? Right. How do we raise money that we need to, in order to do those programs?”

So I think it helps to kind of identify some strategic direction.So that we’re not stuck in the models — because this is not a routine time. This is not business as usual. So it’s really important not to treat it like that. Right. And to kind of shrink and isolate and put our heads down and assume that we can emerge from it unscathed. That’s just not going to happen. So, you know, especially for nonprofits with social justice missions. [Indecipherable] to confront the moment and meet the moment, it’s really important to not be in so many different directions that we’re not clear about what we’re doing. But to really come down again to who’s our community? Do we know what they need? If not, how do we find out? And what are the the roles that we can play that will best meet those needs in a broader ecosystem?

[Rachel sighs]

[Rachel]: It feels heavy. It does. It feels heavy now. You know, we have organizations that we worked with who lost funding at the beginning of the year. Saint Louis was hit by a massive F3 tornado that literally tore a line through one of the wealthiest communities in our city and then one of the most marginalized and forgotten communities. And I actually was out today on site, in Fountain Park, which is one of the neighborhoods that was hit, it’s a predominantly Black community.

And one of our colleagues, 314 Oasis is out there literally doing the healing work. Right? They are feeding people. They are praying with people. They are offering zero gravity chairs and a sound bath and acudetox. Right? Because on top of having to find transportation, on top of having to figure out schools, on top of having to find, you know, safe shelter, there is also that additional toll. 

So you said something earlier about sometimes healers are like the hardest to find. And one thing that I think is very beautiful that came out of that response here is that people have decided to be healers and decided to hold that space now, months and months out, on a day that’s, you know, probably feels like 105 degrees outside. Like, that community is showing up to listen to what the people who live in that space needs and then doing their best to marshal their resources accordingly.

[Deepa]: Yeah.

I mean, that’s such a — that’s a — that’s a really powerful description of how frontline response doesn’t just have to be emergency crisis response. Right. But actually can also embed healing. And it also kind of reminded me when you were talking of how it’s not a one off when we play these roles, it’s — the important — the — it’s so important to show up again and again to build real relationships and trust and to just lean into those roles, as you said. Right. And not kind of give up or turn away from them when something else happens in the community. Which it will. Because we are kind of in this poly crisis moment.

[Rachel]: Yeah.

[Deepa]: Yeah.

[Rachel]: Yeah.

And, and we’re going to make mistakes. When we’re doing — when we’re doing things we’ve never done before, we’re testing new collaborations, we’re going to make mistakes.

And I think one of the things that’s been hard to see is people — I mean, I think everyone’s desperately trying to be resilient and persistent. And also there is a fear that, like, “I’m going to mess this up. I’m not going to do the right thing. It’s going to cause some measure of pain or whatever.” And so then we don’t do it. Like, we don’t take the risk or we stay. And it’s like, this might actually be worse than if we had made the mistake.

[Deepa]: Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I think that we’re so hard on ourselves and each other in the — in this space of social justice, which always just feels like antithetical to, like, what our values are, etc. I think it’s important to bring in grace, faith, to — to not have like litmus test, purity tests when folks want to get involved. And I think it’s also important to, this is where I think it can be really important to just clarify values, to clarify the ways in which folks are in relationship with each other.

And one of those community agreements or values could be: we’re going to make mistakes. We’re going to have conflict. We’re going to not get along or see eye to eye. And we might have to course correct. But we are committed to a couple of things. We’re committed to being in relationship with each other. We’re committed to learning and unlearning. As you said earlier. We’re committed to this community, and we also are going to lean on others like healers, right, who can support us to build a container that enables us to do this work in really difficult, external and sometimes challenging internal dynamics.

00:27:27

[Rachel]: Yeah, yeah.

So you wrote, this piece in June that continues to sit with me. I feel like in many areas of my work and life, I have had to sort of sit in that disruptor space. And sometimes the disruption is just continuing to do the thing that I was already doing. Right. It wasn’t something new or it wasn’t — the disruption was not obeying in advance. Right. But so the piece is called All of Us. And, you talk a lot about the visibility of disruptors in this moment. And that also like that is just a piece of what needs to happen, because in this ecosystem model, like, everybody has to sort of figure out, what they may have to give. And sometimes the most valuable gifts in a particular moment might not just be the disruption. 

So for people who maybe aren’t a traditional disruptor or it does make them anxious to take up space publicly or in, you know, different ways, how would you, you know, advise somebody to sort of think about where they can fit in, where they can take a stand? And especially if they’re, you know — we are living in a very real space of, of violence and of retaliation. How do you stand up in this moment in one of these roles, just sort of considering all of the things that we are, we are uncertain of?

[Deepa]: Yeah. I think that, you know, it’s not uncommon in times of volatility that disruptors are the ones that we often see as the most visible, loud, responders. You know, we saw that in Los Angeles. We see that in the DC area where I live. You know, wherever there is some sort of crisis, disruptors are usually the ones behind the bullhorn or organizing the rallies or speaking truth to power.

And it’s important to recognize that disruptors might be the most visible part of an ecosystem, but they can’t carry the movement alone by themselves. And there are lots of reasons for that. You mentioned some already. Disruption can really take a toll. Physically, emotionally, legally, you know, there are ways in which, people, when they play the role of disruptors, need to really skill up with security training and protocols. They need to think about their tolerance for risk. They need to have the counsel of caregivers and guides.

There’s also the important piece around disruptors with privilege. And I talk about this often where, you know, going back to our privileged conversation, those folks who do have privilege, might want to think about what it means to be a disruptor, right? Because, instead of putting the burden on communities that are most impacted, like the undocumented person, to push back on immigration, right. What does it mean for people who are citizens to take that on? And so it opens up space for folks to support. And, at the end of the day, I think that, you know, not all of us can be disruptors. There are times when we can’t take the risk or we are — there are physical or health reasons for us not to engage. So it’s — but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t another role to play. And that’s really where it’s important to recognize, like, can I be the caregiver to a disruptor?

Like, can I bring water to the rally or can I be a storyteller who’s actually sharing information on social media to combat disinformation? So that folks understand what is actually happening in a particular area. Right. So there are lots of ways that we can support disruptors if that’s not the role that we feel the most comfortable with in a moment.

00:31:37

[Rachel]: Awesome. I love it.

So we have a few minutes left, and if there are people listening that want to ask us a question, you are welcome to drop that in the chat on Instagram or on LinkedIn, and it will pop up for us to see, so please do that.

I have also had two people text me questions. “If you see this, please answer it.” So, one of the questions is what advice do you have for fundraisers in this moment?

[Deepa]: I feel like you should answer that more, Rachel.

[Indecipherable]

[Rachel]: I will chime in. I will chime in, but you go first.

[Deepa]: I’m often in the place of asking for funding. You know, I think that this is a great moment for philanthropy and for fundraisers to, to ask philanthropy to step up in different ways. Right. So I often think about the roles that phil — philanthropic organizations that do have a vast amount of power and privilege and resources, these are the moments where they can be disruptors by saying, you know, “we’re going to give differently than we’ve given in the past because we recognize what our communities need.” Or they can be weavers and, you know, do like some form of collaborative and bring together a lot of different funders. So there’s lots of roles for them. I think for fundraisers, this could be a time to be a guide to the nonprofits that they’re supporting, to really kind of lean into these questions around, do you want to shift your role? What would it look like if you did? What is your risk tolerance level in terms of speaking out? So I think that that is a vital role that fundraisers could play to support organizations not just in like finding grants to apply to or doing that, but to really support them in thinking more strategically about the roles that they wanna show up in.

[Rachel]: Yeah. I think in addition to what you shared, I see an opportunity for fundraisers to perhaps lean into the building. The builders role or even into the experimenters role. I think we kind of get stuck in these routines. You know, “we’re going to send this annual appeal, and we have this major gift launch, and then we’re going to do our gala. Now it’s end of year.” And we are in these routines that have the opportunity for us to infuse them with different information, to do some donor education. Right, to try something different.

And even with institutional funders, I do feel like both nonprofits and funders know, like we need to be showing up differently in this moment. They’re not necessarily talking to each other about what showing up differently could look like. So, you know what — what could it look like if we tried to peel back some of the layers of power right, in those relationships and had a conversation about what you could build together, right? Or what a funder could build with a collaborative grantees or what our community right wants us to do, like how do we meet those needs better instead of doing what is what our trustees approve, right? What our board members are comfortable with? So I really see I see those opportunities.

[Indecipherable cross talk]

Yeah. But I do think what fundraisers have had to do for a really long time, that we have to be good at is storytelling. And so then I think the question for me is, whose stories are we telling? Or how are we telling those stories? And are we doing people justice by being transparent and audacious? And what telling that story means, or what could happen when we share it?

So. [Deepa]: I think that’s a great question. Yeah, I think that’s a great question and great response. 

And I really am always supportive of any entity or person leaning into the role of the experimenter. Again, that’s one that doesn’t show up as much. And I think this is really a time where like risks could be taken or things to be done, done differently. And I think that fundraisers can open up this, this horizon for nonprofits, right. To be like, “what if we tried it this way or went down this route?” I think it’s a — it’s — experimenter, guide, storyteller — all great roles for fundraisers to play. 

00:36:14

[Rachel]: Awesome.

Okay, so then we have another question. What are some of the tangible things other roles can do best to support disruptors who are experiencing real life consequences, such as losing work or jobs?

[Deepa]: Yeah, I mean that is such — thank you for the question. That is something that’s really important to recognize for disruptors, which is that they are oftentimes putting their bodies, their jobs, their livelihoods, their reputations on the line. And in this moment, it can be really isolating to do that, and it can be dangerous to do that. So, that is — those are all kind of, you know, part of the risk tolerance questions that a lot of the disruptors are thinking about these days.

And for those who are not disruptors — and I also want to, you know, make a quick point that we can play different roles in different ecosystems, right? So we may not be able to be a disruptor say, I don’t know, in like our work environment for whatever reason. But there could be the — an opportunity to play that role in you know, a volunteer organization that’s going out and doing rallies or on an online digital community. Right? So we’re not — I think it’s important to think about this framework not just in “where do I work.” So that’s why when I use the word “ecosystem,” it can be any –

[Rachel]: Yeah.

[Deepa, indecipherable] student group all the way to, like, a national network. Right.

And we’re all in multiple, many, some [indecipherable].

[Rachel]: Yeah.

[Deepa]: All the time, including —

[Rachel]: Overlapping [Deepa]: — Lives.

[Rachel]: Yeah, yeah.

[Deepa]: So other folks can play different roles to support disruptors experiencing real life consequences. You know, I think, again, caregivers and healers are vital. I know that, you know, I know in the area where I, where I am, there’s a lot of efforts to support, say, federal government workers who have lost their jobs. Right. So whether that is healing support, whether that’s somatic support that healers are providing — there are caregivers who are making sure that they’re looking in on people who have lost their livelihoods in their neighborhoods, in their communities. There are storytellers who are making sure that we don’t forget and, you know, we don’t kind of move past these stories. Right. So there are lots of ways in which all the roles can support disruptors, including those who are experiencing real life consequences.

00:38:59

[Rachel]: Yeah. You brought up the personal and the last question, that has popped up is, how do you give and receive care during times such as these?

[Deepa]: Like personally or…

[Rachel]: Yeah, I think, I think they meant personally. I think they meant personally. Yeah. 

[Deepa]: Oh. Oh okay. Well I will try that and then, you know, I’d love to hear from you, Rachel.

[Rachel]: Yeah, sure, sure.

[Deepa]: I can generalize it as well. I think there are a couple of things that I’ve seen that are important for me anyway is, I do actually spend time thinking about my roles and making sure that sometimes when I feel stressed or overwhelmed, it’s usually because I’m not in right relationship, in showing up in a certain way. So I pay attention to that and try to adjust as needed.

I think another thing is to recognize, for me anyway, that I don’t have to do it all, that there are lots of other folks that are engaged and motivated and involved. And so to be in relationship with them, right? Not just assume that there are people doing things. 

And then a third thing, which I’ve really been doing a lot of, is be more locally rooted. I think that in times of deep overwhelm, it can be helpful to be like, “okay, what’s — how can I support, you know, the teachers at my kid’s school? How can I be connected to like, a faith based organization?” Right. And so really kind of being local. So for me, rootedness has become important, whether that’s rooted in my role, rooted in my relationships with folks, or rooted in local community. Those are ways in which I’ve tried to come back to self when I feel dysregulated, which happens often. In this day and age, in the type of work that we’re doing.

[Rachel]: Yeah.

[Deepa]: What about you?

[Rachel]: Yeah, that is a big question. You know, I’ll say that generally in my life, I feel like I have had to work on my own boundaries and not feeling like I have to do everything. I mean, oldest daughter in an Indian family like — you just do all the things, whether you’re asked to or not. And so I do think that there is something about saying, like, “what I have to give today is enough.” And that’s actually true. Like making setting that intention and believing it.

For me, I would say in the last few months, really actually taking time to shut down and do something that is not connected to my work or my passions has been really great. So I found some silly podcasts and like some TV shows, and my kids and I really love cooking together. And so we have, a couple times a week we will, like, pick a random recipe out of the New York Times cookbook. And like, that’s the thing we’re making. And so everyone’s, like, chopping and stirring and, that is a very regulating thing for me. And it’s a very nourishing thing for them as well. And I think when I feel like they’re safe and healthy, I’m like, “okay, I can like turn my attention to other things.” So I think that’s definitely one thing. I’ve also been making more time to dream and imagine with friends. 

I am in this, you know, like the internet recently told me, I was middle aged. I’m 43. But I was like, “oh, okay, well, great.” And there’s this, you know, really great. Like Brené Brown blog she wrote years ago about like, the midlife unraveling and what we have the opportunity to do when we realize we maybe are closer to one end of life than the other. And so really not scheduling the meeting, you know, just to check something off the list or to whatever, but just talking about what’s important and what we value and what the aspirations are. And out of those conversations, these really like, lovely things have been born. So I think that’s what’s sort of keeping me grounded.

[Deepa]: That’s beautiful. Thank you for sharing. 

[Rachel]: Thank you for sharing your self with us and with the Community-Centric Fundraising movement. Where can people find you if they want to follow your work or be connected?

[Deepa]: Yeah. So on Instagram, I’m at deepaviyer. If you’re looking for a deeper dive on the Social Change map, the hub and entry point is www.socialchangemap.com. And if you’re interested in my work on solidarity, it’s solidarityis.org

[Rachel]: Awesome. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful Monday and a great rest of your week. Take care.

[Deepa]: Thanks for having me, Rachel.